All about Harbor Freight and Sunforce Solar panel kits

[filibuster]

I'd like to share some information on the harbor freight 45 watt solar panel kit and look a like solar panels made of the same solar cell materials. This post is an attempt to share my concerns and is a warning about these solar panels so please read the findings and draw your own conclusions.

My concerns deal with the 45 watt solar panel kits and those like them being sold by Harbor Freight, Amazon, Northern Tool and others under the Harbor Freight, Sunforce, SunLink and other brands. The "kits" are generally made up of three 15 watt watt solar panels that attach together to make a 45 watt overall system. There are also bigger versions in the 60 watt (four 15 watt) or higher output ratings that use the same type of solar cell panel materials, which I also think could be affected.

My misgivings started after I purchased and used a small 5 watt panel a number of years ago made of the same solar cell material as the larger 15 watt Harbor Freight and other brand panels. I was putting together small solar battery charger systems and I would bring the HF 5 watt panel out to test against some other panels I used. Each time I tested it however, I noticed that it just wasn't performing very well compared to other 5 watt panels I had, and the output was decreasing over time even though it remained in storage out of the sun most of that time.

One panels performance doesn't lend itself to being very objective about all such panels but it bothered me and I was getting a number of questions from people asking about the HF and other similar solar panels, asking for recommendations on using them, which I was struggling to do even with what little I knew.

In my hunt to find any meaningful data that would support my suspicions, I came across this review:http://www.amazon.com/review/R2ZJLCRGOX7T0R

That led me to the report it mentions: http://www.humboldt.edu/~aej1/aSiKen...t_July2_05.pdf or http://www.humboldt.edu/~aej1/Jacobs...Kenya_EP07.pdf

The problem solar panels in the report are with the solar cell chemistry made by a manufacturer in Shenzhen China named the Topray Solar Company.

The panels are made of an amorphous A-SI type solar cell material also known as thin-film. Not all thin-film solar panels have the same problem as the Harbor Freight (HF) panels but the panels made by the same manufacture maybe suspect which brands I mentioned above.

In the report it shows some pictures of the panels with problems. They surprisingly look identical to the Harbor Freight panels. I could conclude that the panel design hasn't changed much in the 5 years since the report was released and any new similar panels could be subject to the same failure rate as the study reported. In summary the report says that of two sets of panels tested under different brand names but both of which were manufactured by the same company, 3 of 4 panels failed completely during the first few months of testing for one of the brands and 1 of 4 failed with the other brand. In addition, the test showed that all panels from both brand also showed a large decrease in their power output of over 50% during the testing period. Meaning that after only a few months in the sun the panels were only supplying 6 watts of power from panels that were initially rated at 14 watts. (Note: the HF panels say 15 watts but under load their actual initial output is 12 watts or less)

I was seeing similar degradation of output on my little 5 watt HF solar panel so I've come to the conclusion maybe unscientifically that there could be bigger problems with the HF and similar panels in general, and caution should be taken in considering these type of solar panels for long term preparedness needs.

The solar cell materials in question are like those pictured above. (Click on the image to see a larger version) The panels are dark in a solid color with lines that run that run in parallel every 1/4 inch or so through out the whole panel. This type of solar panel cell materials make up a lot of the more inexpensive solar panels available. You'll find the same solar cells in Harbor Freight/Chicago Electric panels, GoBe folding panels, 15 watt Sunforce, NorthernTool and BatteryMinder panels and other similar looking brands.

My 5 watt HF panel and the Reports from Humbolt are 5 years old and hopefully a lot of improvements have been made in those few years with the solar cell technology in question. I do however want to share my findings and research hopefully to help others avoid problems because they made the assumption that all solar panels were of similar quality when in fact there are big differences that shouldn't be overlooked or at least weighed objectively.

[Imamom]

So, what would you recommend as an alternative for long-term preparedness needs. Let's say, something than can work in the home as a generator when power is out and will also run appliances, computers, etc in TEOTWAWKI reliably for many years? And what additional equipment would be needed to go with it?

[BackBlast]

So, what would you recommend as an alternative for long-term preparedness needs. Let's say, something than can work in the home as a generator when power is out and will also run appliances, computers, etc in TEOTWAWKI reliably for many years? And what additional equipment would be needed to go with it?

To even begin to answer that question, we need to know what your power requirements are. What appliances are you trying to run?

[Pahka]

Thanks for the head's up! We've been watching the sales at HF to get a couple of sets of these. I think we'll go with a commercial grade instead of these. As you pointed out, once things go south you may not have the opportunity to replace them, and to rely on something that is marginal at best is to ask for tribulation - at a time when that will be all around us anyway.

[Imamom]

For home use I would mainly use lights, and in the winter I would want to keep a furnace running. If it can handle the fridge too, that would be a bonus. For TEOTWAWKI I would want it to run a laptop, or maybe a desktop as well as other small electronic devices- PDA's etc. If I ever get to the point of having electric lights to string in my tent that would be a plus as well. I would want the ability to recharge batteries for useful equipment such as ham radios, flashlights, etc. I'm sure there are other better uses for solar panels during the end of the world, but I'm not that imaginative right now.

[filibuster]

We should probably start a new thread to talk about viable and alternative long term power options. There are a number of possibilities but each come with their own set of positive and negative attributes. Like Backblast mentions, you really do need to know exactly what power requirement you want to supply in order to make even a basic determination of which alternate power source to choose. You also need to decide if you want the power source mobile or transportable at all. Supplying even a small amount of power for very basic needs can get very expensive very quickly and when you add in "long term" sources, you limit yourself even further.

[BackBlast]

For home use I would mainly use lights, and in the winter I would want to keep a furnace running. If it can handle the fridge too, that would be a bonus. For TEOTWAWKI I would want it to run a laptop, or maybe a desktop as well as other small electronic devices- PDA's etc. If I ever get to the point of having electric lights to string in my tent that would be a plus as well. I would want the ability to recharge batteries for useful equipment such as ham radios, flashlights, etc. I'm sure there are other better uses for solar panels during the end of the world, but I'm not that imaginative right now.

A few cautions... Are you sure you want to "keep a furnace running"? If the power is out, why would you have gas service for the furnace? But perhaps you use propane or something else stored locally.. In that case it makes sense. Running the furnace blower requires a *lot* of power and you're looking at a large system. The fridge is in the same boat unless you go out and purchase a low power unit. You will need a pretty hefty inverter and battery bank to run either device. Doable, but realize you're talking about $1k-3k easily, if not more for solar.. A cheaper, but not as lasting route, is a low end generator..

Lights on the other hand, are lower drain devices. Depending on how many you want to run at once, and for how long...

[Imamom]

Home use would be secondary to my uses for TEOTWAWKI. Mostly, I need to be able to run the computer and perhaps lights, recharge batteries for TEOTWAWKI. I do have a gas powered generator, but storing gas for the long term becomes difficult and very space consuming and in my book is not a long-term solution to power needs.

[Imamom]

I've been looking at the solar setups on the uspreppers store. Can anyone give me a good idea of what these can run? How How durable they would be? Can they run a laptop, toaster oven, wheat grinder, breadmaker, lights, etc? All at once or separately? Could I expect them to last through several years of continuous use? I am more concerned with quality than with price. I'd rather spend more for a really good product with lower capacity than less for a mediocre or subpar product that suppoedly gives more power.