Stake Centers as Targets in Protracted Emergencies

[Bro Jones]

Let's say your stake, ward and members have prepared as they should. A protracted catastrophe affects a multi-state area as prophesied. Emergency, power, sanitation, law enforcement, communications infrastructure are overwhelmed to varying degrees. In this situation. LDS Stake Centers become defenseless one-stop-shops for any group with the manpower, weaponry and mobility to take what they want. Medical supplies, communications equipment, humanitarian shipments from the Bishop's storehouses, farms and cannery systems, clothing and blankets, stoves ... how much would we just hand over? Where would we draw the line? My understanding is that church policy forbids the membership organizing an effective defense of the members and their resources. In the past, the church organized successful self defense forces when warranted. What do you think would or might happen? Ideas? Suggestions?

[Oregon Pioneer]

Brother Jones you throw out a very interesting, "what if?" It seems that in most of the areas I've lived in there have always been one or two police officers/troopers/deputies in the ward. In the ward I'm in now, there are four members in law enforcement/corrections. I think the church's teachings of being a caring and active member of the community you live in (supporting Constitutional government) draws law enforcement types into the church or perhaps church members into law enforcement. I heard an account from an old member of the church how a small branch was meeting in Nazi Germany during the Second World War. They were trying to keep a low profile because they didn't want to be seen as an American church or any kind of a threat towards the German government. Sunday mornings they began to notice a German soldier with a rifle slung over his shoulder, out on the street in front of the storefront they were meeting in. The members were nervous about this, until the soldier came by whistling, "Come, Come Ye Saints." It turned out he was a member of the church before being inducted into the German Army. While he didn't want to be "caught" going to an American chuch, it was his way of making sure they were protected.

I think the stake centers would be alright. I lived in California during the Rodney King Riots and caught a little bit of the action. It seemed rioters didn't bother with anything that appeared strong or able to fight back. There were certainly a lot of LDS churches around and I don't know of any being affected. During any times of chaos I'm sure State Presidents and Bishops would have the discression to make the appropriate actions to protect the members. I'm sure you've heard accounts that may or may not be urban legends where someone says or writes, "When a disaster strikes, we'll just go to a Mormon's house and steal their food." I'm also sure we all know someone in our wards who would make it a grave mistake for any rioter/burglar to meet. Heck- look at the most popular prepper sites today: ldspreppers.com, utahpreppers.com and jewishpreppersblogspot.com, we're the people who have been messed with in the past... we remember. I don't think many members of the church are that naive to think someone wouldn't try forcing their way in a house for their food. Brigham Young taught that it was far easier to feed the Indians (Today's politically correct- Native Americans) than to kill them. In Mormon history there weren't many problems between the Indians and the Mormon Pioneers because they followed this counsel. I think this is good advise today, so don't throw out your twelve-year-old MRE's, Mountain House and Oregon Freeze Dried foods. Save them for your neighbors, eat the fresh stuff with your family. That being said, I wouldn't serve a tray full of crackers and cheese to the biker gang that pulled up without a rifle covering me.

[Gearjammer]

Lets be realistic and face it, if there is a large scale disaster on a national scale several things can happen but one thing is certain WILL happen, if it is in the least bit protracted and the government is overwhelkmed to assist the people.......CIVIL UNREST IS CERTAIN!! I'm not talking just thievery either!!

Lets face it todays society is infused with a "Entitlement" attitude, doesw not matter what you earned or actually deserve, people have been convinced by the government, the media, their shrink or whoever else that they deserve to get whatever they desire even at somebody elses expense and are entitled to do so just because they are them!!!

These people have the attitude "I'm gonna get mine regardless!" in a disaster this will turn into a "You give me what i want or else!" attitude and if you refuse they will see to it they get it whether you survive the attack or not. Call it the "Situational ethics" society, what ever the situation caqlls for is alright and ethical as long as you get what you want.

Add to this, the break down of law and order, the criminbals who now mainly just pray on their own neighbors will be out in the whole community now looking to victimize and power thrust on the needful and defensless the prisons will have nodody keeping the most violent people in their cages, although hopefully the guards lock them down before leaving the facility...yes this will result in criminals dying in their cells, but that would be better for society however.

Then ther will be roaming hoards, you really don't expect everyone to stay in their urban deathtraps do you, no they will drive as far as the fuel in their car and the cash in their pockets will let them, then they will wander into small rural communities at random and commence to take up resources since they fled with none of their own, and of course when there is not enough to go around for the locals and them, the entitlement mentality will cause them to riot and start taking it by force.

Am i a prophet, NO, am i someone who worked in a field for 13 years studying and treating such behaviors and know this is how people think........absolutletly...just because the people in your ward or close knit community may behave for the greater good and work together, does not mean strangers looking for "gimmes" will not need to be dealt with in perhaps harsh and most permanent ways.

Sorry to paint such a horrifying picture, but people need to face it when people think it's all or nothing and intend to take it from you, just the appearance of firearms will not dissuade desperate people, you WILL have to be prepared to use deadly force, no matter what the age or sex of the assailants.

[Gearjammer]

Umm! Brother Jones, Where do you get the idea the church is against organizing security groups for it's members? I have heard of stake presidencies doing just that in fact if you read discourses from diffrent church leaders from the founding of the church they all unequivocally espouse the right to defend human life. If you are going by the guns in church buildings rules, thats different. Nodody expects the membership to become helpless martyrs in a civil unrest situation.